Climbing sling strength reddit. I've recently lengthened some of my quickdraws by dimsantling normal quickdraws and using dyneema cordelettes to make them into longer alpine quickdraws. Nylon does not degrade over time in proper storage. I don't think the fold at the bend will reduce the strength any more then the bend radius itself, right? After a quick search I can’t find any data to back this up, but intuitively - The clove hitch can be loaded by only one strand, but the girth hitch should be loaded by both strands. Additionally, if you have at least a 2 point equalized anchor, your partner's fall would need to generate twice the breaking strength of sling for it to fail. 5 and 3 hours on working days. The only issue I can see is the big knot interfering with the gates. My favorite sling for multipitch trad anchors is the rope I am climbing on. Taking it slow, learning a lot. DAV study), wear and abrasion have been shown to be the useful predictor of strength and yours look downright pristine. One thing I’ve noticed is a lot of newer climbers know enough to know certain things are not as strong, but have trouble internalizing when strong enough is strong enough. We literally hang off of those with 300ft of empty space below us. Someone else said its half the strength of a sewn sling but when you look at the strength of a lot of pro its 10kn or less Using any other knot to join slings (including the edk!!): Some people have been suggesting using an edk to join slings. 10 pushups is difficult for me. it's low risk but not worth it when there are better options out there. PROBLEM: I put knots in slings to make my anchors redundant everytime (serene). I am stuck on 1-4-7 ladders (20 degree, moon spacing, 19 mm) and can dead hang the bottom mouth of the beastmaker 2000 with 10 pounds added for 10 sec. Those strengths add together. It's still not as safe because you are still relying on the sling to not get cut anywhere. What is the ideal sling length? The length of the sling determines what you can use it for when climbing. While a few feet of climbing rope would in theory preserve the integrity of the system, I can envision scenarios in which there would be no rope. CF%Bw is an incredibly strong correlation with climbing grade (R 2 =. If you use a normal setup with an overhand or figure 8 knot on your sling, there will be a strength reduction on the sling as well. I have a full set of hexes that are old enough that rope was used to create the slings. Also, it's easier to adjust and easier to tie. The home of Climbing on reddit. Interested to hear what other people are doing to develop shoulder and big move strength. Your comment made me curious given the age of your slings, so I did a little digging. and metal work can go through the belay loop. Starter rack is complete! Any tips for a new trad climber? Would love to hear all sorts of experiences and advice! The tldr of it all is that cams are designed to be used with the sling types they come with and all of their break tests and load ratings are done to those specs. The label on that is the actual breaking strength of the sling, rather than the 10x safety factor you see on industrial stuff. e. re-slinging trad gear? Last night my friend (who is probably reading this) and I were discussing the safety of using accessory cord to re-sling hexcentrics. Dyneema is so slick that I wouldn't like using it like that. Edit: ok got it 5 mm is not enough for normal nylon cord :-) thank you! I’ve been reading about how girth hitches weaken slings, and the documentation that comes with my slings specifically says that 2 girth hitches will reduce strength to 11KN. Im getting more into trad climbing where obviously alpine draws are pretty much your go to for clipping your rope to cams, nuts etc. The quick links we use are rated for at least 20kN (which is over 4000 lbs) and we use them to setup anchors to rappel off or to catch our falls. A girth hitch loaded on only one strand is essentially half of a capsized square knot, and a square knot is not secure (especially a capsized square!). Easy to understand. 13+ is pretty massive If you’re wanting to strength train, make it simple. I think it is extremely benificial for climbing, due to the mobility and strength gains you get. Then you can factor in the strength reduction that the knot introduces into your anchor. The steeper the angle of the turn, the higher the decrease of strength. At this point all my big, medium, and small cams all have individual racking carabiners, and my three smallest micro cams are on one carabiner. I really don’t want to dive into the climbing with no preparation at all. Additionally, the girth (when used with slings) is Reddit's rock climbing training community. " However, things like ring flys pull your Rope if it's multipitch, or some draws or slings if sport. I had a retired Misty Mountain Cadillac, so my buddy and I turned it into a gear sling for aid climbing. In climbing, personal anchors are attached to your harness hard points with this kind of loop called a girth hitch. For example, imagine a new climber cleaning some sport anchors with a pair of slings and lockers. (REI typically carries only climbing spec tubular webbing. Even if that relationship is linear (doubtful), that means you have minimum 210 climbing days before approaching 50% strength, based on exposure. I'm trying to extend my top rope anchor a few feet. Climbing-wise, roughly speaking, Tuesday is a light day either drills or slab because it's a beast of a lifting day. Based on data taken from some of the Lattice guys' research papers (Giles 2020 and 2019; links below), forearm Critical Force as a percentage of bodyweight (aka your 'all-day' rate) is a huge factor in sport climbing performance. Straightforward. Dyneema slings are also easier to break when there isn't anything that can stretch in the system (eg an anchor of just dyneema slings). Both are very durable, but climbing-spec webbing is slightly stronger and more easily tied, and it holds knots more securely. All the alpine quickdraws I see are made with slings. The crimp, depending on how exactly you do it mainly uses your Flexor Digitorum Profundus. Abrasion Resistance: Depending on the intended use, the webbing might need to withstand abrasion from rough surfaces or sharp edges. (While it varies depending on the material and the type of knot, a conservative rule of thumb is about 50%. So you need to know exactly what length fits your requirements. The pros seem to be it's easier to untie. Rather than using one sling, is it still safe to use two like this? If there's any doubt, I'll just extend the master point with slings. Thursday is project bouldering because it's sandwiched by rest days from pulls. Since your quickdraw will all be a standard length, using different lengths of runners to create a variety of options for draw lengths to use together. Between 2. I've seen this done before with people cutting off the leg loops and just using the waist belt as an over the shoulder sling. How much do you get out each year? How abrasive is the rock you climb on? Well, I do gymnastics at a student hour. Pinch strength and crimp strength are somewhat related but mainly use different muscles to achieve the goal of holding on to the hold and not falling off. they have been exposed to abrasion Climbing slings like that have pound-force ratings (giggity) rather than pound mass ratings. Note that these are climbing specific ones though, not the ones you pick up from the hardware store. 6 Experience: climbing for 5y, trad leading for one year ~35 pitches led total since my first lead last June. 64 votes, 89 comments. When they list the breaking strength of nylon or polyester rope what exactly are they listing? is it the Im into rock climbing and canyoneering. From BD QC lab: Looking at all the slings and quickdraws we've tested over the years, I'd say there are two main factors that cause a reduction in strength: Abrasion UV Note that age is not on that list. A purcell prusik is slightly less popular, but arguably better than both the slings and the PAS, as it's slightly more dynamic. Is there a reason? Am I risking death? Why do I feel like i'm the only one doing this? New harness advice: Image is the user guide for my new harness, and I've been told the opposite in the past i. Reddit's rock climbing training community. Drawbacks of Dyneema Climbing Slings If Dyneema is the same strength as nylon, but much lighter, smaller and more abrasion and water resistant, why would you ever get nylon slings? Before you throw out your nylon slings, consider the drawbacks of Dyneema: - Dynamic absorption - Durability - Cost - Melting point - Slickness Dynamic Absorption Mammut Contact Sling Stitching <3. This is typically what I bring on most multi pitch climbs and how I’d rack it to maximize space for pro + draws, the extra carabiners shown (not attached) are situationally I bought bunch of slings awhile ago so I can have backup when I need one. Generally with knots (this goes for ropes, slings and accesorry cord) every turn reduces the strength of the knot. Nylon has the knot 12 votes, 46 comments. It’s all for wrist stability, and getting that little bit extra out on the rock. Hey everyone. You will find that using a single sling for pas and for other purposes is not practical as you will spend unnecessary time tying and untying knots rather than climbing! Reddit's rock climbing training community. But the hitch reduced the strength of the sling up to 50% and each overhand by 40% (from what i found on the www). It is nice to have a fatter sling for 2-screw anchors (usually a nylon-dyneema blend so it's not too fat) because it's easier to untie when you are moving on from a multipitch belay. And thus you see contrived clusterfuck quad setups with like a half dozen lockers to top rope a single pitch sport route when a couple of draws would have been fine. If you make an equalized three point anchor, very common in trad climbing, then your master point actually has three strands of cord. Hi guys and girls, I was wondering what width of prusik cord you all use to make yourself safe when setting up top ropes and… Reddit's rock climbing training community. who else appreciates their attention to detail in having it sit flush. This one is a brand new Mammut nylon attached on a carabiner and this happened after it took some friction on a anchor. Dedicated to increasing all our knowledge about how to better improve at our sport. However, it's also true that knotting a pre-sewn dyneema sling will reduce its strength, as does knotting a nylon sling (just not to such a high degree). I am wondering if I could just girth hitch a new sling through there instead of paying to get them reslung? I know this can reduce the sling strength by up to 50%, but if I use a 24kN sling on a 12kN cam then this shouldnt matter, right? Mammut has made a new sling that's many times stronger and more abrasion-proof by making it out of twisted Dyneema wrapped in a sheath, with no connection seam Ok, the dyneema sling ratings make a lot of sense since they are sold almost exclusively in sewn loops. This review includes 12 of the best and most popular choices available today, which can be used for extending protection to reduce rope drag, building and equalizing anchors, and even as threads or slung Heyo! I've got some older cams I'd like reslung, is there any reason not to just cut the existing sling and tie on some new webbing with a water knot? I'm only asking because the webbing I have one and is a bit wider then the original sling, so it doesn't fit as nicely. Climb outside a lot and you're guaranteed to improve almost all aspects of your climbing, even pure finger strength (depending on what type of climbing you're doing). I have watched many of my guy friends with more natural upper body strength who have been climbing less time than me overtake me grade-wise pretty quickly. My understanding is that girth hitching can reduce the strength of the sling by almost 50%. The fibres have a long life span and a high resistance to abrasion, moisture, UV rays and most chemicals. I don't like tying knots in dyneema; in this case it shouldn't weaken the strength as much as if you were to tie an overhand on a sling but you count on the knot to be there to separate each anchor leg and keep things redundant. Leg loops are now shoulder straps, we move the buckles around, cut out the gear loops and put them on some webbing, added the chest strap with some Moved PermanentlyThe document has moved here. Hi, new to reddit so dont even know if this is likely to get an answer but worth a shot. They get in the way on your harness/over the shoulder and are just bulky as fuck. Around 2 hours climbing, 1 lifting. Apr 12, 2019 · The Black Diamond Dynex Sewn Runner is one of the highest scoring, and most economical, slings in this comparative review. Nylon slings don't lose strength due to age the way Dyneema slings seem to (ref. This is an unheard of practice and I've never even seen dyneema sold in any other form than a pre-sewn sling, for this very reason. Dyneema? What about a standard anchor configuration with a knotted sling? Do multiple knots in the same cord decrease the strength I think this has been a huge factor in my success in route climbing. Skinny dyneema is the way to go. That said, SWL isn't really referred to in climbing contexts because it's not very relevant. Which isn't very serious, but still very hard. Yep, stitching isn't as strong but as a sling daisy is full strength anyway. Strength is not an issue as they are all basically the same (22kn). They are perfect for trad climbing since they can be doubled up easily on smaller bolt anchors, make 4 piece trad anchors no problem, and are long enough to sling around boulders or trees. It's even annoying building anchors with them. On the other hand, PE slings that were older than ten years, but used rarely, had lost a lot of strength. They are typically rated at 22kn and are chained loops. How’s that even possible? Aren’t these used for anchors and suppose to withstand such use? : r/climbing r/climbing • by Sailost2000 View community ranking 6 is a good start if you supplement with sport draws for long pitches. Training Manual by Mike Doyle is a online manual of the Canadian National Junior Climbing team coach who goes over various workouts and different styles of training (technique, endurance, power-endurance, and strength training) that are relevant to climbing. Typically sling lengths can measure between 60 to 180 cm. The reason (for those who don't know) is that the dummy/a body can flail and does not load the line all at once when the fall is arrested. Dyneema in general does not absorb as much force as nylon does in anchor situations. If there is a climbing gym where you live Reddit's rock climbing training community. However, I found something I would do differently- curious as to whether anyone picks out the same thing. Climbing spec is thicker, heavier and slicker, whereas military spec is thinner, lighter and has a rougher surface texture. In climbing your max sustained load is going to be approximately body weight, or maybe twice that if you have 2 people hanging from an anchor, say 400lb (2kN). The personal anchors are designed to hold body weight and not to take falls as they are made of static material and the shock load that would be distributed through your body and not the anchor. The sliding x always relies on the sling itself and not the biner at each end from not slipping through. This would not be my choice to use at all. I think this is likely true from a statistical sense. I would like to replace the slings as I don't know their history. So we tested it. Strength: Different applications require different strength ratings. Do not use any knot except waterknot or flemish bend for slings/flat webbing. Wrist flexion / extension : ideally barbells but also dumbbells Pronation / Supination : Hook a sling through some weights. As a frequent faller/hangdogger, I'd certainly We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. So it's not ridiculous deadly. Am I doing it right? Should I use rope instead of slings? Would it be okay with just one sling after two carabiners? How would you built it in this scenario? Sorry for not having better pics of placements. This allows me to have a sling I can use as a prusik without issue but can also function as a spare sling or an extra quickdraw. MYTH: tying knots in dynex/BD slings should NEVER be done?? My new climbing buddy recently said that in the warranty for dynex slings it specifically says not to tie knots in them since it significantly reduces the strength of the load. Setting up anchors Slings are Reddit's rock climbing training community. " But should such a stereotype hang over the Paladin as a bulky, muscle-clad behemoth? Strength: Skills: Athletics, reasonably common 165 votes, 26 comments. Besides that I have been training on the rings for a few rings. 604) and the magnitude of improvement in CF%bw when going from 5. Give it a go on a long and easy route and see how it goes. Apr 25, 2012 · Gear Slings are nice because you can throw the rack behind you when you are climbing, keeping all of the gear out of the way. I have grazed these debates, and mostly forgotten about them, but one fateful day some veteran players chuckled when I stated my Paladin "attacks the demon with his rapier. Keep in mind that the strength rating for these cords are for a single strand. Jul 2, 2024 · Tying a knot in rope, cord or sling decreases the strength. “In spite of that, we found PE slings that were older than ten years, but had been used rarely and still exhibited very high strength. 1. Here is an article that hypothesizes a strength loss of 0. Primary Climbing Area: Northeast USA, The Gunks Current Lead Range: up to 5. I get it. Dyneema hardly absorbs water, so it's great for winter climbing extendable runners, draws, everything. . If you use two similar slings it's can be up to 80% strength. Slings would be nice for a bomber tree, bolt anchors, or other close together set ups and you will undoubtedly have them already The rope should be fine unless you are climbing the full length of the Sep 1, 2023 · Need to purchase the best climbing slings and runners for your trad climbing adventures? Our expert advice will help, as we've purchased and tested over 30 different slings in the past decade. don't use the belay loop with a rope. 11- to 5. ) Bulk webbing is only available in nylon. Is it as safe to weight any knotted segment as it is the ends? 24 votes, 29 comments. Note that I'm talking about slings (flat webbing): The knots usually used to join cords and ropes work differently when in flat material! Tips on improving mono strength I’m gonna be heading out to Wild Iris (climbs are mostly pockets in limestone) for the summer and I was wondering if you guys had any advice on gaining confidence and strength on monos. The cons seem to be lots more people die from screwing up the knot and/or backup knot. So after 20 years of sitting around, your slings have lost on average 5kN of strength through age alone. A Metolius PAS (chain of full-strength loops), possibly connected via a quickdraw or something to a second bolt, is another popular choice. ) Is there much of a difference in strength loss between cord and webbing? What about nylon vs. and over the years have also seen many sport climbers bring a couple 60cm (and even longer sometimes??) alpine draws for their projects (difficult clips, minimising rope drag Safe working load is usually significantly lower, around 1/5th of the breaking strength. Moving forward, I’d like continue some sort of finger flexor max strength training on my climbing days, whether that be a strength focussed hangboard protocol, or no hang pulls. Quad axis loading on a D shaped locker is a 25% reduction in strength. My issue is that i like to use the sling as follow : girth hitch to my harness and 2 overhand knots at like 1/3 and 2/3. I have tried the various random "ring workouts. If that is not an option for whatever reason then I use whatever slings I have available on my harness. Grip strength and technique, and some research on how to optimize your training routine to focus on climbing-specific strengths. What I would prefer seeing is how this test occurs with a dynamic rope in the system. ” I assume this is a typo and the first sentence should read I just recently learned about the bowline knot for tying your harness in for climbing. A thinner loop does put more stress on the thumb loop wire which can blow, especially after multiple falls or rounds of linking and un-kinking. : r/climbing r/climbing • by Griff_Hamsley View community ranking That’s why every complete set of climbing equipment includes a wide variety of slings in various lengths and materials. If you want a full set of light trad/alpine sling- and quickdraws for cheap I warmly recommend looking for sales of rack packs of light biners (CAMP NANO, Edelrid 19G etc), 60cm dyneema slings and 17cm Petzl Ange S/L or BD OZ quickdraws. A pretty cool step-by-step explanation of anchor building for top-rope set ups. Saturday is power endurance. Another possible con is that the rope strength may be reduced with bowline knot. I found a video of some guys testing another brand of sling rated for 24 kn, and it breaks at ~31 kn. What kind of rope do I have to use? is a 5mm rope good enough? I wanted to use a 6 mm as recommended here but it wasn't available in my local climbing shop so I bought 4m of 5mm one. In addition, I don't believe that girth htiching sling to slings is a good idea in terms of wear. See full list on outdoorgearlab. 26kN per year for unused nylon. The printed rating, often 22KN, means "it took, on average, about 22KN of force to break this sewn loop by pulling from end to end" Fine. While the pinch uses your thumb muscles, it uses a different finger muscle, the Lumbricals. Having the cordelette can be really nice for slinging a giant boulder or tree or for times when you dont want to swap leads. S. Climbing gear, for instance, needs to adhere to specific strength standards to ensure user safety. Share Add a Comment Sort by: Best Open comment sort options Top New Controversial Old Q&A HunchoBandoOG • You don't want big fat slings. As far as brands go, I absolutely recommend the mammut dyneema slings. Popular Uses for Climbing Slings Draws and extending quick-draws Slings and runners generally come in single and double sizes, with the single length being at least 2-3 times longer than the average quick draw. If your other option is a water knot tied sling, that has 60% strength. com Apr 30, 2010 · Dyneema and Spectra are high strength polyethylene fibres which have a tensile strength about 15 times greater than steel. The results are not as clear and consistent (because of the extra freedom of movement, but the I know there's an abundance of people who blame strength over technique, but the reality is I can't do a single pull-up. Not in any catastrophic way just in it getting caught with all the rustling as it moves around. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. And yes we are scared of falling. It also sounds like you need some rest days. The PAS things always seemed like extra money for another piece of gear that didn't really do anything better than what I already had. The metal is in good condition so I went ahead and replaced the slings with brand new accessory cord. Alpine draws are Is it alright to use a knotted sling as a personal anchor system? I know daisy chains are discouraged for the obvious reasons, but is a knotted sling relatively bulletproof? I assume so, but having been surprised by counterintuitive safety hazards I figured it best to ask. The sling works as well as a piece of 6mm cord but is also a full strength (22KN) sling which I carry as an alpine quickdraw. I knot the cordelettes with a double fisherman's knot. Like Dyneema, it is one of the strongest fibers on the planet, especially when The crux of the "climbing as primarily a strength sport" idea is that most people can acquire the climbing skill over enough time to climb hard (lets say V-double digit) but many fewer people will be able to build that appropriate amount of elite finger and hand strength. We went all out. 4M subscribers in the climbing community. For many a year, there have been debates over Strength or Dexterity as the superior stat. I personally dont like using sport draws for trad climbing so I carry 10 regular shoulder length slings and 2 double length slings on longer stuff, all racked with 2 carabiners on my harness. trueI'd be ready to do all three if I were you. Wrap the sling around your hand in either direction to target pronation / supination. MembersOnline • eheath23 ADMIN MOD Depends where you're climbing, are you anchoring using natural features or gear, have you considered static rope, are you leading the routes first or are the tops of the cliffs accessible by foot, etc. I currently have all dyneema slings and am planning on buying a few nylon slings for clipping the first piece, building anchors, etc. To answer your question: I think you take a 20% hit in strength even with a perfectly tied water knot. Totally with you on everything except the overhand, which is a royal pain in the ass to untie once you're done why not use a figure eight? When these test are done with a dummy in a harness the impact forces are typically less than half of what you get when using a rigid block of the same weight. You can either cut up your cordelette, cut up one of your nice expensive Dyneema slings or take my sage advice about carrying at least one tied runner. New to climbing with a harness : r/climbing &nbsp; &nbsp; Go to climbing r/climbing r/climbing Since you're asking about trad climbing, at some point in your career you're going to have to untie and thread your sling or use it for rap tat. The image of a sling straight vs doubled vs girth hitched and it's relative strengths float around and is taken as doctrine. This means that it took at least 70 climbing days for the slings to decrease in strength by 16%. However, I get shut down on hard compression problems (V9ish). And yes I do remember being above the static anchor few times when setting up a top rope (I believe that's the most common case of climber being anchored with sling above the static anchor). P. They also give you an easy way to transfer gear back and fourth. 1 is ok, 2 is super good, 3 is allso super good. Hi I would like to build a quad anchor for some sport multi pitch. Thin Dyneema slings in particular need to be treated with caution with respect to aging. A daisy chain is generally considered a bad choice. Unfortunately, it's hard to find any break tests done on slings that aren't both old and well-used - i. Dynex is a brand name for “ high-molecular-weight polyethylene ” fiber, which is essentially the same exact material that makes up Dyneema or any of the non-Nylon choices in this review. ckedt fvvfm cggn dzpayyb pfsoh rjyhk euscd bfipck vasl vnwvd